06 Alan Briggs | Demystifying Sabbaticals

H2 Leadership (00:00)

leadership development in sabbatical has been my biggest surprise on sabbatical. Here's what people don't know and no one talks about.

sabbatical is one of the greatest leadership development tools for your team that you could ever experience. Because when you're away, your team has to rise up to a new level. it's not going to happen with you there. So we accidentally block people from rising up to their level of capacity and empowerment and entrustability when we're away. And I see this with my kids when I'm gone. My boys are really responsible. They're more helpful to their mom because dad's not there.

to fill in all the gaps and take care of all the things

Andrew Estes (00:47)

Well, welcome everyone to another Nexus Church Planting podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Estes, and I've been looking forward to today's conversation, which could be very timely for a lot of our planters and leaders in our Nexus network.

H2 Leadership (00:49)

Well, welcome everyone to another Nexus church planting podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Estes, and I've been looking forward to today's conversation, which could be very timely for lot of our planters

Andrew Estes (01:00)

My guest today is, as an old friend, Alan Briggs. Alan has been coaching leaders for well over a decade in ministry through seasons of transition and discernment and renewal.

H2 Leadership (01:00)

a constant basis. My guest today is, Alan Britt. Alan has been coaching leaders for well over a decade in ministry, who has seen more transition and

Andrew Estes (01:11)

He's the founder of organizations like Stay Forth

H2 Leadership (01:11)

development and renewal. He's the founder of

Andrew Estes (01:14)

Design and Stay Forth Coaching and more recently, the sabbatical coaching group where he helps leaders plan sabbaticals that lead to real lasting renewal. He's the author of several books, including, Staying is the New Going, Everyone's a Genius, and Anti-Burnout,

H2 Leadership (01:14)

organizations like State Forth Design and State Forth Coaching and more recently the sabbatical coaching group where he helps leaders plan sabbaticals that lead to real lasting renewal. He's the author of several books including Dang the New Going, Everyone's

Andrew Estes (01:31)

been a steady voice calling leaders towards health, margin, and longevity in ministry culture that often rewards exhaustion more than wisdom. And

H2 Leadership (01:31)

calling, he's been a steady voice calling leaders towards health, margin, and longevity in ministry and culture and often rewards exhaustion more

Andrew Estes (01:41)

I've personally been blessed by his

H2 Leadership (01:41)

than wisdom. And I've.

personally been blessed by his ministry over the years. first met with Alan around 2015 as our family and another family prepared to launch our first church plant. And I've also enjoyed some of his coaching as part of a cohort several years ago during a significant season of transition in my own life. I'm excited to dive into our conversation today about learning about rest, sabbaticals, and what it takes to lead in the way

Andrew Estes (01:43)

ministry over the years. I first met with Alan around 2015 as our family and another family prepared to launch our first church plant. And I've also enjoyed some of his coaching as part of a cohort several years ago during a significant season of transition in my own life. I'm excited to dive into our conversation today about burnout, rest, sabbaticals, and what it takes to lead in the way that lasts. Alan.

H2 Leadership (02:10)

that lasts. Alan.

Andrew Estes (02:10)

So grateful for your

ministry and grateful for your time to be on the podcast today,

H2 Leadership (02:12)

so grateful for your ministry and grateful

Thanks for having me. I love what you're doing. Love what you're doing at Nexus and just great chance for us to catch up too.

Andrew Estes (02:22)

Absolutely, man. For anybody who's not real familiar, I know I try to give a little bit of a plug with some of the organizations you've started. I know you've been kind of a serial entrepreneur in a lot of different areas and venues, hosting podcasts and writing multiple books. For anybody who's not real familiar with you, can you just give us a little bit of a background on your story and journey in ministry up to now?

H2 Leadership (02:23)

Absolutely.

podcast, writing multiple books for anybody who's not really familiar with you. Can you just give us a little bit of a background on your

Yeah, absolutely. mean, first of all, I got four kids and they're ranging from middle school to young adulthood. And so I'm loving life as a dad and driving around a lot in that phase of life as well. But I don't want to miss these moments in my kids' lives.

My wife's incredible, runs a foster care agency. Two of our kids are adopted. So just a lot of common connection points probably with listeners in that. And so with that said, life is really full. So I don't write from this place of, you know, I get three days a week to just write and live like a monk and do a little bit of work on the side. Like life is full. We feel deeply called and impacted to what we're doing specifically. And the fight is real to be able to continue to work well and rest well. So

I mean, yes, done a lot of stuff, but the through line for me is how do we stay healthy and have the impact, steward our gifts, do the things God has invited us to do, the sacred work God's invited us to do. How do we hold both of those intention of health and high impact? So we talk about the H2 leader. I assume that's who we're talking to today, or H2 leaders that truly want to live healthy and have a high impact. That's really what we're after. All the work that I do centers there.

Andrew Estes (03:58)

That's awesome, What's some of your journey in ministry? Like, where did you come from? I know that we're Colorado brothers. For anybody that doesn't know, Mr. Briggs is in Colorado Springs area. But give us a little bit of background of your ministry journey.

H2 Leadership (04:07)

Yep. That's

thought as a kid, I was actually heading toward business. And I just I've always been an entrepreneur, you said serial entrepreneur. And sometimes it was just like, I just like doing stuff. I just like creating value and money that follows value and employing people like even in high school, I was employing my friends and to look back, I don't think we look back at our stories enough. And

and see that God had already not just set me apart in some cool ways, but had already set my heart on a path that it was excited about. And I just loved creating value through business really as early as I can remember it. And then realized that I needed to head in the direction of the church. Some of that kicking and screaming, some of that excited and headed into church ministry. I was in church ministry for 13 years. And really the through line there, Andrew, was that I

was to call leaders forth into the fullness of their calling. So I didn't have language for it as more of a spiritual starter or more apostolic in nature. And we don't really use terms like that. They seem weird in the US and they've certainly been abused and misunderstood and all that. But I started to understand I'm not just your regular pastor guy. And I have huge respect for shepherds that truly are caretakers of hearts and souls. But for me, was like God had given me this desire to call people forth.

And so I was always coming up with tools and frameworks and processes. And I got to really cut my teeth running an apprenticeship program, that apprenticeship for ministry program, turned into a church planting residency years down the line. And then people were calling from other places saying, would you coach me? I didn't know what coaching was. So really, God tricked me into it. So I mean, that is that's a full story for another day. But but God really tricked me into coaching. I didn't know coaching was the thing.

I didn't know it was beyond sports. I didn't know you could get paid for it. Had never heard of executive coaching. And then realized that this is actually my greatest kingdom contribution. And actually I teach like a coach. I write like a coach. I train like a coach. And just absolutely love what I get to do. And so now I find myself coaching entrepreneurs, coaching nonprofit leaders, and coaching high capacity ministry leaders.

⁓ as well, and we'll talk about sabbatical later, but that's been one of the biggest surprises of my life, is that God has invited me to help people consider taking rest, receiving His rest, and actually shaping these long bouts of rest, this macro rest that we call sabbatical.

Andrew Estes (06:44)

Yeah, man, that's been really interesting because I know that you've been very, very passionate about just the idea of rest, the idea of margin, the idea of just helping leaders just gain some of that clarity in and through their own lives, through their own hearts. But what has happened maybe even in your own leadership, in your own ministry that has really made you more passionate about just kind of that long-term faithfulness about moving forward?

and the rest and everything that you are continuing to teach about.

H2 Leadership (07:17)

There's actually this moment that I met with a church planter.

and he was here in our city and doing great apparently. I thought everything was going great. And we literally sat down, we met at a Panera Bread and just had a conversation, man, anyway, I can help you. We encourage you, prayed with them. I had a regular conversation. And then just a few weeks later, I found out not only the church wasn't going anymore, but that nobody had heard from him. And it turns out he had actually moved, headed somewhere else. And it turns out he was in this moment of struggle when we met and I had no idea.

And I was asking questions and I just thought, we have to do better. And I looked at the landscape of all these just incredibly talented, gifted church planners who were starting new things and obviously gifted communicators and had usually led a student ministry or college ministry somewhere else and like beautiful things had happened. And so what I realized is that people were heading out of church ministry and sometimes like kind of train wreck things happening in their lives.

morally and ethically and spiritually, not because they weren't gifted, but because they didn't have a healthy long-term plan. And what I realized is that I actually needed to shift in training for competency to training for sustainability. And I've done all the boot camps, I've taught at the boot camps and done plenty of those things. And I realized we actually have to change the model of how we walk with people. That looks a whole lot more like discipleship and leadership development.

than it does just, here's all the information that you need. And so really it became this kind of splinter in my soul that I realized we actually have to do it differently. And the steps after that kind of blew me away. I actually thought it was gonna be career suicide to say, who wants to focus on their health? Who wants to think sustainability? We actually, don't wanna think about our health. We wanna think about spiritual beach muscles and we want to like pump our ministries up and...

you know, reach the biggest, the best, you know, all those kind of things. And then as I was coaching, I had officially made the jump to do this full time. I could no longer do both my local ministry and the translocal ministry of coaching and writing and equipping and empowering leaders. I realized that this actually was getting worse and worse. We were seeing a burnout epidemic, starting to talk about leader loneliness.

And like, this was actually the right thing we needed to be doing for this time. And so really in God's divine timing, it was the right time to jump and then, yeah, COVID hit and we really was the great revealer of what was already going on with our lives and our souls. And we realized we're all kind of a hot mess. And a friend of mine says it like this is that COVID was the great revealer. And it was like, we realized that the tide went down and we were all skinny dipping the whole time.

And that was such a good description for COVID is like, man, we're not as resilient. We're not as healthy. We're not as grounded as we thought we were when the rug gets pulled out from underneath our life and our rhythm and our schedules. And it revealed a lot about leaders. And so that ended up being sort of our best of days and our worst of days. As we coach leaders through that, our team actually grew through that time and ended up being ⁓ a resilience test that we needed as a team. And since then has just been

up and to the right in so many ways working with leaders because leaders are really valuing their soul. And I think we're all terrified of burnout and a flame out and realize we're not smarter than the people that went before us. We need to take this seriously. So I am deeply passionate, like I say about the H2 leader that is both healthy and high impact.

Andrew Estes (11:00)

what you're saying, you know, especially post-COVID, I mean, the great revealer for a great number of things in the church, but the urgency of this conversation feels, you know, still especially relevant now as you see continued studies, you know, just all the depressing studies that Barna puts out are different things of just the stuff on burnout, just emotional exhaustion, pastors being just done in ministry altogether, all of those different things.

H2 Leadership (11:01)

yeah, I mean what you're saying is...

for a great number of things in church, but the urgency of this conversation feels still especially relevant now as you see continued studies, just all the depressing studies that Barna puts out are different things. The sin of fun on burnout, just emotional exhaustion, pastors being just done in ministry altogether, all

Andrew Estes (11:26)

And from your experience, why do so many pastors and church planters even wait until they're depleted or

H2 Leadership (11:26)

of those different things. from your experience, why do so many pastors and church planters even wait until they're...

depleted or just exhausted before they actually consider this idea

Andrew Estes (11:35)

just exhausted before they actually consider this idea of rest or getting help?

H2 Leadership (11:41)

Yeah, exhaustion and then kind of the multiplied version of that burnout is this cruel trick because we really we don't know it until we're there. And we're really the last person to know it. Now, other people can see signs of it before us. But I think

Because when we are exhausted, we're not seeing things clearly because we're gonna lack self-awareness in that Because when we are exhausted, we are not doing our best work. We're literally the last ones to see it So if this isn't a case for community like true Brotherhood sisterhood friendship close community and leadership. I don't know what is And so it's this cruel trick. So we live in Colorado very dry here when I go into the mountains Especially when I host groups

I say to people, you need to hydrate, like pre-hydrate for a few days before you get here and take your electrolytes, like just make sure you're hydrated or you're gonna get headaches and ultimately you're gonna feel crazy thirsty and have some effects when we're up at altitude. And it's similar in our leadership is that if we're not pre-hydrated as we head into the climbs of life that are real and they're taxing and they're no joke.

And I call myself a mountain guide for the leadership journey. So as I'm walking with leaders up that, if we don't pre-hydrate and we're not ready for those times, then when we're thirsty, it's too late. We've already got the headache, we've already got the symptoms. And so I've seen that to be a helpful analogy for leaders to say, what are we doing now before we take the big climb? What are we doing now for the health of our souls? How do we zoom out on the year and make sure that we're healthy going into that sprint season?

First of all, I'm not against hard work. In fact, I do a lot of hard work. It is hard work, whether it is writing content or working directly with people, or whether it is getting on planes and coaching and doing all the things that you get to experience and do, Andrew, like I am all for hard work. Hard, meaningful work was there in the garden and this naming of the animals and this tending, this cultivating as well.

And so, I mean, it's in God's plan. There's a difference between work and toil. And when we push work beyond what God intended it, then we find toil on the other side of it. And the beauty of that is rest, this great thing that God modeled to us, is that we are to work hard and rest hard. We have meaningful work to do and we are not machines. And God modeled that to us in creation.

Andrew Estes (14:09)

That's great, It's fascinating just There's just so much interest and intrigue, I feel like, in the whole conversation around Sabbath. And just even from a book like John Mark Homer's The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry and so many different other ones that people are just gravitating, just hungry for something to fill them up.

H2 Leadership (14:16)

There's just so much interest and intrigue I feel like in the whole conversation around Sabbath and even from a book like John Mark Hummer's The Ruthless Homeworld and Nation of Hurry and so many different other ones where people are gravitating to be hungry for

something to fill them up and in the busyness and the chaos of whatever type of life they're in and the type of vocation that they're in. It's you, it's kind of learn and shift towards the idea of a sabbatical.

Andrew Estes (14:31)

and in the busyness and the chaos of whatever type of life that they're in and type of vocation that they're in, as you kind of like learn and shift towards the idea of a sabbatical, I kind

of want to start in a weird place because I had a friend that just asked me recently, what do you actually think about I was like, well, it would probably be really good. Like I'd love to have one at some point in my life. That'd be really awesome.

H2 Leadership (14:45)

I kind of want to start in a weird place because I had a friend that just asked me recently, Sabbath? And I was like, well, it would probably be really good. I'd love to have one at some point in my

life. It would be really awesome. But, you know, just being able to value the weekly Sabbath often. You we have this president for like the weekly feasts and so, you know, we have weeks of vacation.

Andrew Estes (14:56)

Like biblically speaking from his perspective, you know, just being able to value the weekly Sabbath often. You know, we have this president for like the weekly feasts. And so, you know, we have weeks of vacation and stuff like that. But

from your perspective, what is the value of being able to design and have a longer extended period of time away from ministry? And so I'd love to just kind of get your take on that as you just kind of introduce the idea of what a sabbatical is.

H2 Leadership (15:10)

and stuff like that. But from your perspective, what is the value of being able to design and have a longer extended period of time away from ministry? And so I don't just kind of get your take on that as you just kind of introduce the

Well, first of all, like I think about my relationship with my wife and

We love getting away on trips. In fact, we just had an extended trip, we went to the Oregon coast and it was incredible. But that is not enough to sustain regular relationship and connection with my wife. Of course not. Is it amazing? Yes, absolutely. mean, some of the best times in our marriage are when we are away and can just focus on one another. And the weekly date nights or the bi-weekly or monthly date nights, they matter a lot.

and those connection times and those times of conversation with each other or just, you we're gonna head out tomorrow night for First Fridays and go look at some art together and visit one of our favorite shops and get a drink together. And so if we think about our relationship with God in that way, it's helpful to have both micro and macro, and I'd say in the middle, medium. So micro, medium, and macro in terms of our rest and reconnection with God. And there's actually a word in the Old Testament, Shemitah,

that kind of loosely translated would be replenishment or even reset. And I would argue that it is forever has been needed and will be needed. it was, know, again, God modeled this to us. He didn't need a break, but he knew that we would. And this rest from creation, then the Jewish people sustained by that, even in times of slavery, which is really interesting and sustained even in their journey through the desert. And then

becoming a hallmark of these people is that Shemitah is actually this bigger narrative underneath it. Even we talk about the rest of the land that when we push things to just produce, we see some of the effects and impacts we're seeing in our world today, when there's just no space for that reset. to me, if somebody says sabbatical is not enough, I would say you're right. Just like a week vacation or a couple weeks vacation away from my wife and I, it's not enough to sustain

everyday life, but it is an extension of this Shemitah idea and this concept that is what is this weekly Sabbath. Here's what's cool, Andrew, that I pictured up as well. Just like when my wife and I go on a week away to the Oregon coast and we realize, man, I love being reconnected with you. I love the conversations we have and the coffee and the laughs and the stories and how we dream about our kids and our future.

we really need to take date night seriously. When I watch leaders return from sabbatical, that's usually the first thing they do is say, well, every week there's this gift of Sabbath that's coming my way. So we don't say you take sabbatical, just like we wouldn't say you take Sabbath, you actually receive it. It's a gift of God. And it's usually administered through an organization to us, but it's a gift of God. So in the same way, it requires these open hands.

and this open heart and an open life to be able to receive it. Now lots of preparation and planning, but to be fair, the Jewish people had to prepare six days for one day, not just one day for six days, but it's that cycle together that we prepare these six days to be off one and rest is coming for you each week, but it won't just happen to you. You need to be intentional. And I've even noticed as we think about that medium piece of weeks off, so many people...

when they're exhausted, like, I just need a vacation. And it's like, no, you actually need a life that you are living at and just maybe underneath your capacity so that you don't feel like you have to escape from your life. If every time I get tired every quarter, I think, man, I need a vacation to escape my life, then that means that I'm living life over capacity, probably like a machine. So in those ways, I encourage leaders to think about micro, rest, and even an hour or two here and there.

Andrew Estes (19:11)

Thank

H2 Leadership (19:13)

I went to a coffee shop this morning, just pick up a book that I wanted to, knowing that I had some intense coaching and conversations like this and podcasts and writing today, because that to me was just replenishment for my soul to just pick up a book and be unrushed or unheard for the first few hours of the day, knowing that I had an intensity of the rest of the day. So leader, listening, watching, think about micro rest. Think about those medium spaces of week here and there and days off, and then think about macro.

rest in the lens of a sabbatical. And if you haven't had it before, glad to demystify it here, just kind of what it does to a leader. It's hard to imagine the transformation in those weeks that literally translates to years and even decades in leaders' lives. And so I've watched the leader reset after these times, just as I had a reset this weekend and my Sabbath was powerful after an intense work week last week, pretty intense work week this week, to be able to have that space to just be.

I heard from the Lord so clearly and I just got to be with that slow cup of coffee next to my wood stove, interacting with my family, being in my sweatpants, not having to produce anything. Now we get to multiply that in this thing called sabbatical. And if you haven't experienced it, it's really hard to understand how God reorients the leader through that, but it's a beautiful invitation.

Andrew Estes (20:35)

Yeah, that's good, man. I'd love to, we'll dive into a little bit more in the sabbatical, but you touched on something that has been really interesting to me as I've, you know, really dug into a little bit more of understanding on rest and just even the pattern of creation where it was evening and there was morning like day one and in the mind of a Jew, I've often heard that the day started in the evening and so they start their day with rest or they start their week

H2 Leadership (20:37)

I'd to.

Andrew Estes (21:04)

as day one with Sabbath. And so we have this mindset in the West of resting from work, whereas in the biblical precedents to work from the rest that we've received and starting with that. And so that's been a good, you know, that escape that kind of, man, I just need to get a vacation just to get away, rather than just thinking, ⁓ like, this is the start of my next season of ministry, not an escape from what just happened.

H2 Leadership (21:06)

So good.

whereas in the biblical precedence to work from the rest that you've received and starting with that. So that's been a good, you know, that it's a good thing, man, I could get a vacation just to get away, rather than just thinking, ⁓ like, this is the start of my new season of ministry, not an

escape from what just happened. It's a game changer, man. Like, when we think about that of, man, my next day is crap. If I...

haven't shut down well and gotten away from blue light, gotten away from my phones, had the right conversations with my family, reconnect with my wife, have this ability to lay down and sleep versus this, man, I'm just making sleep happen. It's kind of inconvenient. I'll get a little bit when I can and then go, go, go. The healthy leaders that I see, Andrew, are actually the ones that take their shutdown.

seriously, just like they take their morning seriously. They take their evening seriously, their preparation, what's next, and live life proactively instead of reactively. to live in macro proactively, you need preparation for a sabbatical, which preparation and planning are different, by the way. This preparation for a sabbatical, just like preparation for the next day, that hopefully we don't walk into this podcast conversation going, wait, what are we going to talk about again? Or we don't walk into a meeting going, why are we here again?

Andrew Estes (22:57)

Yeah, that's fantastic. As you kind of take us into just this understanding a little bit more of the sabbatical, understanding what that looks like for a leader. You guys have launched a whole organization around this. You've got a new book around this and there's a huge shift and a huge need for just the replenishment and the soul care that happens during a time like that. But just as an introduction for somebody who

H2 Leadership (22:59)

Yeah, that's fantastic. As you kind of take us into this understanding a little bit more of the sabbatical, understanding what that looks like for a leader. You guys have launched a whole organization around this. You've got a new book around this, and there's a huge shift and a huge need for just the replenishment and the soul care that happens during a time like that. But just

as an introduction for somebody who...

Andrew Estes (23:24)

You may know some stuff about sabbatical,

but somebody who may not really know what that actually looks like. Give us a high level introduction of how you define what that is.

H2 Leadership (23:54)

rest and discipline, and that kind of ruins it for the rest of everybody. They've been put on sabbatical. No, let's just say that is not the right, the proper usage of that. God doesn't put us on a Sabbath day because we've screwed up. It is a gift to us, right? It is in His deep love and heart as a Father for us. So that kind of drives me crazy because we've seen that for many years, is that leaders being put on the sabbatical as discipline has actually created a fear.

among congregations, among leaders who don't want to go on sabbatical because they're like, wait, nothing's wrong. Yeah, nothing's wrong. In fact, this is a beautiful invitation. So first of all, it's a positive thing. It's not like detention. It's not like throwing somebody along to the side. It's actually this beautiful gift for the sake of sustainability in the future. But here's what we say, it is for replenishment. Like that is the aim to replenish the things that are dry or missing or lost or misplaced along the way. And that's what I've found is that

I just kinda misplace things, I'm sure you do, everybody listening, watching, we just kinda lose stuff along the way. We lose the reminder of like why we pray or why we read scripture isn't just to be able to package it and share it with other people or lead other people through prayer. It's like reconnection with God and this relationship with God. And so we get busy and life gets full and things leak and we just lose things along the way, we lose our intention with things.

And so it's this beautiful replenishment. So that is the aim. It's not to write another book, which is serious work in and of itself. It's not to go do the academic sabbatical thing where you study up on something else. It literally is for the sake of replenishment. And we say that is a month or more away from your primary work. So maybe you have to do a few real estate things on the side. I coached a guy who actually runs a farm and he's like, know, like cows don't milk themselves. And so we got to make this happen, but away from your primary work.

Again, for the sake of replenishment. And here's the key, with the intention to come back stronger, to come back to work so we can go ahead to work. This isn't in between jobs. If you need a break in between jobs and your employer gives you time to look for your next job, that's great. But it's actually disingenuous if we don't plan on coming back to then head on sabbatical. we personally, we do not coach people at sabbatical coaching group through a sabbatical if they plan on just coming back and leaving.

⁓ afterwards. that's our working definition. It's really, really important to us because words shape worlds and we have to cultivate that trust with elder boards, teams and congregations before we head off on sabbatical of like, that's the intention. It's replenishment. Who doesn't want their pastor, their church planter the head of a CEO to come back with more vision, more freshness, more creativity, more innovation, more focus.

more fire for the mission than they've ever had before because those are usually the things that people return with after sabbatical.

Andrew Estes (26:49)

Yeah, you kind of alluded to some of this, but there's oftentimes a lot of, I assume a lot of fears that you encounter, whether it's ⁓ specifically addressing with a board or a broader group of leadership teams as you're navigating what this actually looks like, anything from, you know, how are we actually going to maybe maintain the quality of the teaching or maintain the quality of the worship or for whoever's doing the sabbatical versus, you know, the fear of, you know, if we send them on sabbatical,

H2 Leadership (26:51)

Yeah, you kind of alluded to some of this, but there's...

assume a lot of fears that you encounter, whether it's specifically addressing with a board or a broader group of leadership teams as you're navigating what this actually looks like, anything from how are we actually going to maybe maintain the quality of the teaching or maintain the quality of the worship or for whoever's doing the sabbatical versus the fear of

Andrew Estes (27:18)

so many times there's been stories of people feeling God calling them completely elsewhere. Like, why would we want to do that? We actually like

H2 Leadership (27:18)

if we send them on sabbatical, so many times there's been stories of people feeling God calling them completely elsewhere.

Andrew Estes (27:25)

our pastor. If we send them on sabbatical, they'll leave us and they'll never come back. Or even just the financial thing. How could we actually afford to pay somebody else to do the work that needs to happen while they're away? As you're navigating some of those things, if you can speak to maybe those fears or anything else that you regularly encounter.

H2 Leadership (27:25)

Why are we gonna do that? actually like our pastor, if he's in a month's radical, they'll leave us and they'll never come back. Or even just the financial thing, how can we actually afford to pay somebody else to do the work that needs to happen while they're away? As you're navigating some of those things, if you speak to maybe those fears or anything

else that you regularly encounter that boards or other leadership team members are facing as they look at

Andrew Estes (27:45)

that boards or other leadership team members are facing as they look at their past or going on for battle.

H2 Leadership (27:51)

Well, first let's name their scarcity thinking and there's abundance thinking. Scarcity thinking and rest do not go together. If you cannot trust, you cannot rest, period. If we don't trust God that he can spin the world just fine on his finger without us, we will not actually rest. If you cannot trust that your people will behave or will get work done or whatever that is, you will not rest. If you do not trust God as your provider, you will not receive a Sabbath each week because

You have to work for your dinner. You always have to be doing what's next. So first of all, there's a mindset below it. And we have to have an abundance mindset as we think about it. I would say to a board, first of all, if, you when folks say, we can't afford this, I would actually say you can't not afford it. Even in the business space, by the way, business sabbaticals are growing in a huge way. There's a guy that did a study just about a year ago came out the largest.

sabbatical business study we've ever had, business leaders are starting to experience it. So how much more should we as ministry leaders to go like, there's not many ideas that start in the church and go outward. Usually they start in business and come into the church. We were ahead on this one, like thousands of years ahead on this one, as God and creation and the Jewish people actually have modeled this. So I think that's an exciting piece of that. But we to think about mindset below it. And then what I encourage folks to do, you mentioned

Andrew Estes (28:49)

Interesting.

H2 Leadership (29:14)

This, I don't actually call it a book, The Sabbatical Journey, I believe it is a field guide because it's got spots to write things. We actually have a spot for you to list your fears. What are your fears? And if you're a board member, you're feared maybe that they're not coming back or that, like you say, the teaching or the quality of something will suffer when they're away. And that's scarcity-minded thinking. And then when we pray into that, we realize, wait a minute, this is actually an opportunity. This is an opportunity for longevity.

for that leader to stay long-term, for that family to feel deeply loved and like they're not taking second place to the church, for that leader to come back creatively and to come back with maybe a new sense of calling for the next decade. Because even businesses know that retention is good for the business. One of the studies that Barna said is that churches actually flourish underneath long-term leadership. And churches that have constant turnover don't end up flourishing. So really interesting as

the replenishment of the sabbatical journey comes back actually to be better for retention. So what's interesting is that these things are actually proving out even in businesses. The number one fear that folks have going on sabbatical is that they're gonna waste it. They say something like, don't wanna come back unchanged. Like I want this thing to really count would be the positive way of putting this. So if you're heading on sabbatical and you're thinking, I don't wanna waste it, I want it to really count, then sounds like stewardship to me. So that's actually a good thing right there.

⁓ The other thing is like, I don't feel like I can power down or what am I gonna do all the time? Great, we have some preparation work to do. I'm not sure if there's going to be enough to do to stimulate me when I'm away or am I gonna be grumpy with my family or things like that. And again, we haven't found that stuff to be true at all. We found that when folks plan well and the right amount of preparation, the right amount of things in there, there's just enough to do and there's just enough space.

that actually when we plan properly, then these beautiful things happen where we can enjoy the moment. We can enjoy that vacation more. We can enjoy the time with our kids more. We can enjoy the day where we just wake up and have a slow morning with a cup of coffee because we've actually prepared well for it. So those are some of the common fears. Here's something that's really interesting is I talk about leadership development in sabbatical has been my biggest surprise on sabbatical. Here's what people don't know and no one talks about.

is that sabbatical is one of the greatest leadership development tools for your team that you could ever experience. Because when you're away, your team has to rise up to a new level. And really, it's not going to happen with you there. So we accidentally block people from rising up to their level of capacity and empowerment and entrustability when we're away. And I see this with my kids when I'm gone. My boys are really responsible. They're more helpful to their mom because dad's not there.

to fill in all the gaps and take care of all the things that I was doing. So that's one of those things that actually, when we look in the abundance mentality, I would argue a church can't afford not to make the investment of sabbatical. And sabbatical is an investment of time, energy, faith, trust, of letting that leader get time away to then come back stronger and more resilient. So we can't guarantee that the leader's gonna come back, but honestly,

We've seen zero nightmare situations at sabbatical coaching group. Those stories you hear about are almost always the leader that was already deeply struggling, didn't have a plan, didn't have a guide, didn't have a process. And so they just kind of headed into nothingness, experienced the deep isolation and came back and did maybe the only thing they thought was possible, which was resign. But we say as leaders reorient back to work, we say don't resign, redesign.

redesign your life, redesign your leadership, redesign your spiritual rhythms and even your week and how that's put together. And then we watch this beautiful thing happen where leaders say, I could lead like this for another 10 years, 12 years, 15 years. sustainability. That's what we want. Healthy leaders leading at a high impact at all of their calling for the fullness of who God created them to be for the long haul. That's what we wanna see.

Andrew Estes (33:29)

Yeah, that's remarkable. As you, so many questions as she just talked about with so many different things there. want to start as rather than revealing your entire secret sauce, but what are some of the key things that you encourage leaders to do during a sabbatical? So sometimes there's just, you know, allotted time just to have some fun and maybe go on vacation and like reconnect with family. But then, you know, maybe there's time to do some really significant deep work.

H2 Leadership (33:31)

That's remarkable. So many questions as you just talked about with so many different things there. I want to start as rather than revealing your entire secret sauce, but what are some of the key things that you encourage leaders to do during a sabbatical? sometimes there's just a lot of time just to have some fun, and reconnect with family. But then maybe there's time to

do some really significant deep work.

Andrew Estes (33:58)

whether it's kind of like a soul care

retreat or I've done like life coaching and life planning in the past as you're kind of doing maybe a deep dive into what's next or really reflecting on whatever God's done in your life up until this point and some significant things that you would do to lead them through certain pieces. Give us a high level of what are some of the key elements that make up a healthy sabbatical?

H2 Leadership (34:00)

whether it's kind of like a soul care retreat or I've done like life coaching and planning in the past as you're kind of doing maybe a deep dive into what's next or really reflecting on whatever God's done in your life up until this point and some significant things that you would do to lead them through certain pieces. Give us a high level of, we're some of the key elements.

Yeah, in the sabbatical journey, in this field guide, we have what we call the six Rs. And this is how we help people prepare ahead of time for their sabbatical. And two of the big ones are recreation, or as we would say, re-creation. So I just talked to a gal, she's heading on sabbatical, and she's going to, in Europe, when she's over there, do a flower arranging class. I learned to weld. A lot of people are like, I want to learn.

to fly fish or I want to build something with my hands because I normally build things with my heart and my soul and my mind. And so that's a really interesting thing, this phrase that if you work with your body, Sabbath with your mind. If you work with your mind, Sabbath with your body, which is why I often want to go on a hike. I often want to get outside because all week long I've worked intensely with my mind. So that's usually the kind of the recreation or recreation piece of that. And it's not

all fun, but we wanna make sure there are fun aspects where you're alive and you're experiencing deep play. So that would be a big one. And the second is reconnection. Reconnection with God vertically and others horizontally. One of my favorite stories of this, there was a guy heading on sabbatical and he said, I kinda wanna put recreation together with reconnection. Like, love it. So he goes on a trip with his dad, his aging father.

and they have this amazing time in boats, they're fishing together. Of course, it wasn't about the fishing, it was about the memories and the connection. And many times the recreation piece takes us back to things that as a kid we did and then we just lost those hobbies. And then the reconnection, it kind of pulls work out of our life during sabbatical and just says, who would you like to get together and how would you like to reconnect with them? And those are some of the most beautiful moments.

during my sabbatical, somebody gave me a couple hundred bucks and just said, go out to some great meals with people. And I mean, we ate sushi together and we went to small mountain towns and had coffee together. And I just loved going to these little cafes. Those are some of my favorite things about my last sabbatical is just that reconnection time, the recreation time. And so there's six things in there for leaders to pay attention to ahead of time. But those are really the two that stick out.

Andrew Estes (36:39)

Yeah, as you are kind of considering who goes on some of these sabbaticals, know, oftentimes we just think of senior leadership really being able to do something like this or to step away for a season and from my seat never having been like a senior leader.

H2 Leadership (36:41)

Yeah, that's good to you as you are kind of considering who goes on some of these savatables. I, you know, oftentimes we just think of senior leadership, really being able to do something like that sort of step away for a season from from my Steve never

having been like a senior leader. You know, it's just you get a little jealous of what the lead guys maybe Yeah.

Andrew Estes (36:57)

You know, it's just, you know, you get a little jealous of what the lead guys maybe get to do at some point. But no, as you're you're kind of thinking through what that looks like, are

H2 Leadership (37:07)

what that looks like, are other leaders being able to take advantage of stuff like this?

Andrew Estes (37:07)

other leaders being able to take advantage of stuff like this? And if so, maybe when?

H2 Leadership (37:12)

if so, maybe when? Yes, yes, yes. There's a lot here, but what I would say is that this ends up being a gift to the whole organization. We actually are currently running a huge sabbatical program with a really large church. I think they have 425 staff and it looks like roughly 275 of their staff are going to go through this. And so they would say,

roles that have a spiritual weight to them. if there's somebody that just cleans facilities, then they are actually getting some extra paid time off, but the sabbatical is truly for the folks that bear the spiritual weight of a shepherd, you know, inside of that church. And so, they've figured that out, and we're actually, there's a process of different tiers where you can say, you know, maybe the lead pastor,

gets X amount of time and then a little bit less than that for kind of the second tier of kind of, you mid-level leaders that have some responsibility but not quite as much. And then there are folks maybe at the director level that still get that. So I am so proud of these churches across the country who are running these big sabbatical programs. And it can be hard to get it off the ground, but that's one of the things that we help people do. We actually have processes that we help. A large organization just reached out yesterday and said, we're thinking about doing this.

Organizational wide, almost every organization can do this at scale, but it just looks different for the different tiers. So yes, Andrew, I'm really proud to say that organizations of all sizes are doing this. And they may not be able to give the same amount of finances or the same amount of time or a one-on-one sabbatical coach they can give to that person. But every organization can do something to clear out that space for sabbatical.

I would say to you, leader, if you are going to head on a sabbatical, it's on you. And that's why we're really proud of this resource that we put together, because not everybody can afford the time, the energy, the money of sabbatical coaching one-on-one, but everybody can walk through this process and steward it well. Because it is a gift, and there's this huge responsibility for a leader to steward that well. But in order to steward it well, organization, you got to take the first step. And I encourage either a lead pastor or executive pastor to go first.

and then move it on down. If it's a church planter, I'm actually coaching a church planter now, they're three years in, and he needs to work for about the next eight months to be able to put the right leadership in place, raise people up, create the preaching schedule. He's stewarding that really well, but it's a church that's only three years old, and he realizes if we don't do it now, that we may wait till we're 10, 12, 15 years old. There's always an excuse why we can't do it. So start early, maybe not in your first summer, the church is there, but...

⁓ proud of the churches who are doing it when they're small, when they're young, and the ones who doing it when they're huge, there's always an excuse that we could have to not begin a sabbatical program.

Andrew Estes (40:06)

Yeah, I've seen well been curious to see that from firsthand from a lot of our church planters in particular with With this they carry a unique weight as you're as you're building something from scratch You don't have an established base of of eldership of mature leaders and all these different things that may be in place for churches that are 15 20 plus years old at least

H2 Leadership (40:08)

Yeah, I've seen

carry a unique weight as you're building something from scratch. You don't have an established base of of eldership, of mature leaders and all these things that may be in place for churches that are 15, 20 plus years old

at least. they as the systems are fragile, as the staffing and the leaders are fragile and all of that's just being developed for the first time. How do you how would you respond to leaders that say stuff like, know, this sounds great, but my church

Andrew Estes (40:29)

but as the systems are fragile, as the staffing and the leaders are fragile and all of that's just being developed for the first time, how would you respond to leaders that say stuff like, you know, this sounds great, but my church would probably just fall apart if

I stepped away? Obviously part of that is like a hero kind of complex to some degree, but at a very practical level, some churches may not be ready for

H2 Leadership (40:44)

would probably just fall apart if I stepped away. Obviously part of that is like a hero kind of complex. Yes, leader, I've got good news and bad news.

yep, yeah, leader, pastor, I've got good news and I got bad news is that you are not as valuable as you think. You are not the only one that can do this. And we're not talking about value to God. I mean, we are deeply and dearly loved.

And guess what? Other people can learn to do the things that we're doing. There's our unique design here, but this is what forces an organization to develop leadership, is the idea that we're gonna be gone someday. And again, if we prepare well and steward well, that's what people like us as sabbatical coaches do to intentionally walk you through that. this is what in design, they call it a forcing function. A forcing function says, here's a constraint.

is to say, maybe it's 15 months from now, I'm gonna be away for eight weeks and not able to preach. So what that looks like is right now, we need to begin developing a teaching team. We need to begin to have somebody else lead the meetings, not just me. And there are leaders that I say, what's the longest you've taken away before from work? Like truly, like not answering emails. And they're like, five days, 10 days. I'm like, okay, so you're gonna take like five times that. How's that feel?

And it's the shift that happens in a leader's brain that says, I better begin empowering people now. And this is where these messages come together. Because if we believe we're the only one that can do that, the only one that can preach a great message, the only one that can lead the meeting, the only one that can do whatever, and I believed it before, no shame, no guilt, then we'll never receive this. And so how does work and rest work together? Many times it looks like team. I love team, and this is a call to empowerment.

is to say you can't do this on your own. You can't receive a great sabbatical on your own. You can't prepare for it on your own. You certainly can't lead the thing when you're away alone. And it just forces us back away from solo leadership, away from isolation, away from hero complex to realize, man, I'm just not as valuable as I think. And that's a beautiful message to say we're part of a team. We're not the fullness of everything that God's doing in our organization. So leader, I hope you hear that well.

And I hope that that takes pressure off of your shoulders as you hear it. It is a beautiful thing to go on sabbatical and go, not only did nothing burn down, but they're doing pretty stinking well without me. Hey, if that becomes an identity hit, good, sorry, not sorry. You gotta deal with that with God now before that gets out of control into a raging inferno someday.

Andrew Estes (43:24)

Yeah, I love the leadership development aspect where it really does put a healthy pressure on other staff members, other leaders, other potential leaders as you're getting ready to develop that. reminded me of, know, and I forget who told me this, but when you're looking at the book of Acts and how Paul's going on all these missionary journeys or their teams going on all these missionary journeys, the professionals left.

H2 Leadership (43:26)

the leadership development aspect where it really does put a healthy pressure.

You know, and I forget if it's for you told me this, but when you're looking at the book of Acts and how Paul's going on all these missionary journeys or their teams all these missionary journeys,

the professionals left was just this idea like the professionals weren't the one that stayed and like stayed in that site, you know, like saying is going go again, just loyalty and development and flourishing that happens with local leadership and, all that that's beautiful about that can happen with that. there was this model of

Andrew Estes (43:50)

was just this idea like the professionals weren't the one that stayed and like stayed invest. I even know like saying isn't going I get like just the loyalty and the development and the flourishing that happens with local leadership and and all of that that's beautiful about that can happen with that. But there was this model of raising up local leadership

and just piece it out like we're moving on. We're going to we got a job to do and keep going. And I think there's something to be taken from that. And in this mindset of you know being able to be forced.

H2 Leadership (44:07)

raising up local leadership and just piecing out. We're moving on, we have a job to do, and I think there's something to be taken from that in this mindset of

Andrew Estes (44:18)

to raise up leaders behind you as you're doing this good work.

H2 Leadership (44:18)

being able to be forced to raise up leaders behind you as Absolutely. Yeah, we are to equip the saints for the work of ministry, given the apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds, and teachers as saint equipers for the people.

We don't mean to disempower. I don't work with leaders that would ever mean to disempower people, but we accidentally do it. And I just know there's always an excuse. was hard the first time at sabbatical, it hard when I was leading a couple of coaching businesses doing it. And for me, again, what is beautiful is on the other side of that, we get to experience a more sustainable, life-giving, ongoing micro rest fit within.

each day because the goal is that we would be able to work well and work beautifully and actually that we would be set up for sustainable work for a really long time.

Andrew Estes (45:10)

Yeah, well, I know that there are a ton of resources out there as we kind of wrap, know, the sabbatical coaching group connecting with Alan is phenomenal. I know that there's even organizations I hear of like the Lilly Foundation pretty frequently where the Lilly Foundation can actually grant you some money and your church the money to be able to afford to be able to go on sabbatical or send some of your staff members on sabbatical. so

H2 Leadership (45:12)

Yeah, why not?

phenomenal. know that there's even organizations I hear of like the Lilly Foundation pretty frequently where the Lilly Foundation can actually grant you some money and your church the money to be able to afford to be able to go on sabbatical or send some of your staff

members on sabbatical and so a lot of resources out there will really highly encourage people to to get connected with Alan if you guys are more interested in learning about what would this look like.

Andrew Estes (45:34)

A lot of resources out there will really highly encourage people to get connected with Alan if you guys are more interested in learning about what would this look like to not only take a sabbatical,

but to be able to do it really well and to be able to get some significant coaching alongside you during that season of rest and replenishment. Alan, I'm super grateful for your time today, man. I just want to end with just this one question for a Nexus planter or ministry leader who feels just that way.

H2 Leadership (45:45)

to not only take the sabbatical, but to be able to do it really well and to be able to get some significant coaching alongside you during that season of rest and replenishment. Alan, I'm super grateful for your time today, man. I just want to end with just this one question for a Nexus planter or ministry leader who

feels that way, being worn down, unsure whether or not a sabbatical is the right thing, or even just rest in general.

Andrew Estes (46:03)

being worn down, unsure whether or not a sabbatical is the right thing, or even just rest in general. What would you say to encourage

somebody towards moving in this direction?

H2 Leadership (46:12)

What would you say to encourage somebody

Yeah, start now. Push the sabbatical aside because again, this is not the escape for everyday life. Let's say that rest will not just naturally happen. It's something that you need to receive from the Lord. In order to receive it, you need to be proactive. You need to block it off and to realize that God is a loving father. He has good gifts for his kids.

And one of those is rest. It's one of his greatest promises to us. Rest for the people he loves. You'll see that in scripture. And we're not just talking about sleep here. We're not just talking about a day off here, but a life that is sustainably built on him. And secondly, to realize that we, again, we are not as valuable as we think. We are not irreplaceable. We're not the only one who can do the thing and that God has entrusted us with that. This is not.

something that we own, are actually stewards. So I think there's so much good news baked in here. Great work and great rest work together in this spectrum that healthy leaders begin to understand. So I think it's a beautiful invitation and it's a daily invitation to us, not just a couple of times in our lives and we get this extended time off.

Andrew Estes (47:27)

Awesome, well I appreciate you so much, man. Thank you so much for your time and how can people best get in touch with you?

H2 Leadership (47:29)

⁓

Google sabbatical coaching group. would encourage folks just start with the sabbatical journey again is the easiest way to get that What is the practical put together with the spiritual of sabbatical? think that's where we stand apart from other folks is we're not assuming that you're monastic We're not assuming that your kids are out of the house We're not assuming that you don't have a job or two or three going on. And so just starting with

either on Amazon, The Sabbatical Journey, or just heading a Sabbatical Coaching Group. We actually have monthly webinars where you can just sit in, kind of understand what we're talking about with Sabbatical before you hop into it or make any commitments.

Andrew Estes (48:08)

Alan, appreciate you so much, man. Thank you so much for joining us.

H2 Leadership (48:11)

Andrew, great to see you again, man. Keep up the great work.

Nexus: Church Planting & Le... (48:28)

Thank you for checking out the Nexus Church Planting Podcast. We hope this conversation was helpful and inspires you to lean deeper into your calling. If you want to learn more about Nexus, visit us at nexus.us. There you'll find church planting resources, upcoming trainings, events, and more. We also want to encourage you to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Leave a review or rating to help others find us.

And please share this episode with someone you know, a pastor, a leader, a friend, somebody who needs to hear this conversation. And until next time, move with vision, lead with courage, and multiply the kingdom.